My comments on MTX ...for now

[metal_miracle]

too me it seems that mtx tracks where made the same way as need4speed?
cuz it i can allmost see the square polygons..

[ElDiablo (Paul)]

Hey Mglmstr...

  If I can ask a question... did you use a grayscale (or Leveller style) dismap to make the tracks you made for MTX? If you used a dedicated editor, can you post a screen pic of it? Surely that isn't against the rules, is it? I'm interested to know what you used to create the tracks. I think their brilliant btw. Maybe they are WFO...but I like that and always have!

[TTM_CHAINS]

ok heres my 2 cents ...... i went and baught it lil over a week ago and havent stopped playin it since ...absolutly awsome.....the physics rock ...u guys that complain because it dont let u jump the length of a football field are spoiled to mcm2's unrealistic bs!  the more u play offline the more upgrades for ur bike u unlock.....by the time u unlock everything man that bike smokes! and the clutch! dont get me started on how bad a$$ the clutch is ...me and 4 or 5 other TTM been playin it non stop...any of u wanna play w/ us leave a post and ill add u to my msn ..we dont play on gamespy because its a pofs adware installin hunk o chit. but do urself a favor and buy this game and give it the time it deserves .....if any of u are too busy ot just lazy and dont wanna earn the bike upgrades lemme know i can send u a career file w/ all of it already unlocked so u can have da good bikes for online play....i sure hope the good folks here at TD tear the game apart and come up w/ some kind of editer we can use to make trks w/ ...other wise its not gonna have the longevity that msm2 had
....  i will say this ......   they need to make a patch so we dont gotta restart the game everytime we wanna change track ....bonehead move that feature was
    thnx fer the ear       CHAINS

[Mglmstr]

We used 3D Studio MAX.  No diplacement maps.  Every polygon was built by hand, then we went back and optimized geometry.  Becuase of this we were able to get the PS2 and X-box to run at a solid 60fps.  OK, it drops every now and then on the PS2, but overall we hit the solid 60 mark.  Since hardly anybody took notice to this, even reviewers, all of our MX games moving forward on the current generation will be locked at 30fps on the console.  This will give everyone a little more freedom to do what they want to do. 

For those wondering.  Yes, we did use the Neversoft/Tony Hawk engine.  None of the Hawk physics were used, let me say this again.  Absolutly none of the tony hawk physics were used on the bike.  For the person who made that accusation.  Have you driven one of the Tony Hawk vehicles around?  If anyone has played Excitebike 64, the physics resmemble those the closest since the same coder wrote both physics engines.  That coder is no longer here.  Actually, he was the CEO at the time.  Since then our company has gone through some reorganization and we're looking at all options for the future.

[cR]

If someone here makes a track, can't you convert it?

[ToaDsiX]

this is getting interesting......

[AMA_DirtTwister]

Is it possible to get the file format for tracks.  I'm sure we could come up with something to create tracks if we know the formats.

I really don't get a great deal of enjoyment trying to figure out formats.  Laurie is way more persistent then I am at doing it.  He is actually quite amazing.

If we had the formats for the following file types I'm sure we could do something. 

qb
pre
col
mdl
tex
img
cas
skin

I didn't get my MTX yesterday it was something else.  It's supposed to be here tomorrow.

Bruce

[cR]

hmmm img and col are used in the gta series...but probably cant be opened with the tools for that...worth a shot tho ill try

[Mglmstr]

Is it possible to get the file format for tracks.  I'm sure we could come up with something to create tracks if we know the formats.

I really don't get a great deal of enjoyment trying to figure out formats.  Laurie is way more persistent then I am at doing it.  He is actually quite amazing.

If we had the formats for the following file types I'm sure we could do something. 

qb
pre
col
mdl
tex
img
cas
skin

I didn't get my MTX yesterday it was something else.  It's supposed to be here tomorrow.

Bruce

First....  Disclaimer....  We had nothing to do with the PC port so some of this information may be false.

If someone here makes a track, can't you convert it?

No.  This would take a ton of time becuase the level would not be ready for export right away.  Also, I'm not sure of the legal ramifications.
Every texture uses the proprietary NS material editor, etc.  Oh, and I have no way to export a PC level, only console levels.  Plus, we're not in contract with Activision any more so using the Neversoft tools is a big no no right now.

All .qb files are all compiled files with the proprietary NS tool.
.tex are the compiled texture files
.pre  Not sure, has something to do with the code aspect of the game.  Like loading assets
.col is the compiled collision data
.mdl are compiled model files that have physics.  Ie. Cones, haybales
.skin  Not 100% sure, but these are rider skins
.cas  Has to do with code.  Not sure exactly what
.img..  I have no clue
.tex are just text files.  Usually scripts. 
.q files are script files

I can look into this more.  But I highly doubt you guys will be able to make levels for the game.  There's a ton more stuff going on that the MCM editor.  If one thing is not right the game will more than likely assert. 

Two things are needed for a level to load.  Geometry and a restart point.  The restart point must be above solid ground. There's a few collision settings that will be difficult to figure out if you're not familiar with the engine.  There's 2 basic types of collision.  Standard ground collision and wall collision.  There's multiple other types of collision line no collision, draw a texture, but don't collide.  invisible collision and the list goes on and on.  We had to have all these different types of collision for level optimization.  For example.  If we had a wagon prop next to the track that was 500 polys, we didn't want to use those 500 polys as collision since we could get away with putting a box around the object and have 10 polys collidable.

Again, levels will not be as simple to make as MCM.  MCM was basically a height map, and one texture.  Here you'll more than likely not be able to use a height map and you'll have to texture every poly.  Tracks took me about 20-40 hours to build just the ribbon, then the artist had the level for 3 weeks to 12 weeks texturing it.

[Kazam]

we are a long way from home...

[cR]

Here you'll more than likely not be able to use a height map and you'll have to texture every poly

This I dont think this is true, if you used max or a simualar program you can apply ur heightmap / displacement map to a plane and convert to editable poly then you'll have it as a mesh, then apply the diffuse map (texture), maybe the size of the texture would be big but it can be cropped to pieces. That way you have tracks MCM2 style... but then theres the exporting problem 

[Mglmstr]

Here you'll more than likely not be able to use a height map and you'll have to texture every poly

This I dont think this is true, if you used max or a simualar program you can apply ur heightmap / displacement map to a plane and convert to editable poly then you'll have it as a mesh, then apply the diffuse map (texture), maybe the size of the texture would be big but it can be cropped to pieces. That way you have tracks MCM2 style... but then theres the exporting problem 

True, but one thing to keep in mind is the MCM height maps use a ton of polys and their engine LOD's them off in the distance.  MTX supports LOD, but it's not done on a the automatic scale as with the MCM engine.  Their engine more than likely strips the ground plane as well.  We had to manually cut our geometry up for the stripping process.

[AMA_DirtTwister]

Converting a dispmap to an optimized set of poly's and texturing them is not a big deal.  Doing that realtime is.  Getting them into MTX so it works is a big deal if all the information is proprietary.

MCM 2 actually preprocesses all the terrain into different levels of detail.  It then dynamically chooses what level of detail to use.  It also does some smoothing on the fly that works really well.  The more that I've messed with displaying 3D terrain (I'm actually taking a course on it at the moment), the more impressed I've been with the algorithms that Rainbow used to display terrain.

Bruce

[Mglmstr]

I concur Bruce.  Rainbows way of dealing with ground terrain is just plain sweet for off-road games.  For eons I've been requesting some type of height map based way of making terrain.  This would make level creation 10 times faster, and the levels would have a more natural look to them.  At the end of the day, it all comes down to what your engine was built for.  The height map stuff has its disadvantages, but I think the advantages outweigh its weaknesses for off-road type games. 

For the next gen of consoles I'm fairly confident we'll be using a height map based engine in any off-road type game.

[TMD_MickyD]

For those wondering.  Yes, we did use the Neversoft/Tony Hawk engine.  None of the Hawk physics were used, let me say this again.  Absolutly none of the tony hawk physics were used on the bike.  For the person who made that accusation.  Have you driven one of the Tony Hawk vehicles around?  If anyone has played Excitebike 64, the physics resmemble those the closest since the same coder wrote both physics engines

If your refering to me then you read my post wrong, it was a question, not an accusation.

[Mglmstr]

No worries TMD_MickyD.  My comments came across harsher than what was intended.  This is one thing I hate about speaking in text rather than in person.

[TMD_MickyD]

Thats cool.

For the next gen of consoles I'm fairly confident we'll be using a height map based engine in any off-road type game.

Thats very good news, this means that the next version of the game (MTX 2?), should have much better tracks, and hopefully more chance of have user created tracks . Hopefully you can iron out a few physics bugs aswell   

[wizen2002]

well I have to say mcm2 is a great game in its own way but I find mcm2 way to much technical when it comes down to lines to follow and stuff....If u miss a jump it takes like 1/4 to 1/2 the track lenght to catch up for what you lost...and all those hidden lines just drove me nut...I know mtx is not  what a lot of poeple expected but at least when I play mtx I have fun racing rather than busting my brain out trying to figure lines...I like to play mtx online a lot its a kool game...

[TMD_MickyD]

well I have to say mcm2 is a great game in its own way but I find mcm2 way to much technical when it comes down to lines to follow and stuff....If u miss a jump it takes like 1/4 to 1/2 the track lenght to catch up for what you lost...and all those hidden lines just drove me nut...I know mtx is not  what a lot of poeple expected but at least when I play mtx I have fun racing rather than busting my brain out trying to figure lines...I like to play mtx online a lot its a kool game...

Yeh, lines are bad, just have a big straight away 

[VMX_BrokenBones]

The STock MCM2 tracks are great, they have plenty of lines and it doesnt take you 1/2 a lap to get back on rythm. MTX Stock tracks are the same way. You screw up, just ride out the straight and hopefully the next corner will give you the room you need to get the speed you need for the next section.

However its the user created tracks that take nearly 1/2 a lap or even 1 lap to get your speed back. No matter what game you will have this problem because some creators don't take it into consideration that if you screw up you need at leats soem space in order to make up speed.

My comments on MTX, its a fun game.... for a week or two. I finished the SX and the Nat, i am not into FMX so I wont truely fully finish the game. But what, there is 16 tracks? A tad boring if you ask me. Sure I can make my own, but my creation is limited to the horrible track editor, and unable to play it in multiplayer sucks the big one. After playing MTX I have contacted my friend who I gave my copy of MCM2 to so his lil brother could play it. So I am getting it back this weekend to install it, I have not had the game installed in about 2 years.

Everybody asks, what will bring back MCM2... maybe MTX on itself will bring back MCM2. MTX has brought out the beast in me who loves MX, but MCM2 is by FAR the better game.