MXU tracks suck (or, why MCM is still the best)

[Garasaki]

Well, everyone else is giddy about being able to play the MXU tracks in MCM2, but to me it's rather depressing.

Before I continue, I do want to thank the Twisted Dirt crew cause they put sooooo much work into this game and do things that I never even would have dreamed of (the trick editor really blew my mind).  And I appriciate everything they've done, including this.

But, man, those MXU tracks are terrible.  Would they even be popular tracks if someone released them on mcmfactory?  I don't think so.  I think they'd get called n00b...everything except for the textures is pretty bad.

The whoops are terrible.  The track is at least twice as wide as it should be.  The jumps are too far apart in most cases.  I mean the track design is just plain bad.  I never liked MXU even 25% as much as I like mcm2.  I could never really pinpoint why.  I had a naggin feeling that it had something to do with the tracks and the floatiness of the physics.  Having now played the tracks on the better airtime physics of mcm2, I see that the problem really comes down to the track design.

Just imagine, if they had released an editor I would now have a new favorite game.  But because I only have the REALLY BAD stock tracks to play, I think the game sucks.

Lets look at what Rainbow accomplished since the release of MCM2.  In other words, what's better about MXU then MCM2?  Better turning, it's be hard to argue against that.  Turning in MXU is way better then MCM2, thanks in part to having a neat brake and clutch that allow you to square stuff off.  Suspension action seems better in MXU, but that's more of a visual thing then actual gameplay.

Now look at what got worse from MCM2 to MXU.  Jumping.  That's what MX is about right?  I hate jumping in MXU...nothing like 300 foot triples.  Ridiculous preload.  You have much more realistic control of the bike in the air in MCM2.  You can whip it in MCM2.  Floaty physics.  Track design took a huge downhill turn.  They obviously made the tracks for 11 year old kids.  And they suck bigtime because of it.  Unrealistic scale, no challenge (ie no bumps anywhere, wussy whoops).  The track design only amplifies the terrible jumping.  Plus, they don't have any online capabilities in MXU.

So anyway, the release of the MXU tracks to mcm2 has really solidified my feelings that MXU was a huge step backwards for the mx game genre.  I was so excited for this game, and so was everyone else.  But in the end, it was such a huge disappoint to me. 

Now, if we could just get the clutch and turning from mxu in mcm2...that would be awesome.  Or get the custom tracks from mcm2 into mxu.  But until that happens, mcm2 still is the best mx game in existance (IMO) and we know this MX vs ATV Unleashed game is only going to be taking another step back.

Sorry for the rant, but I've wanted to say this and have some discussion about it for a long time now.

[cR]

I'd say there great in MCM2 but better in MXU cuase they where build for that game... But after a few laps its pretty easy to get the hang of the tracks... and the MXU supercross tracks are the most realistic ones I've ever seen in a MX game... and they ride great in MXU... I think it's the problem that you can't ride (in MXU)  j/m

[MotoX395]

Well, everyone else is giddy about being able to play the MXU tracks in MCM2, but to me it's rather depressing.

Before I continue, I do want to thank the Twisted Dirt crew cause they put sooooo much work into this game and do things that I never even would have dreamed of (the trick editor really blew my mind).  And I appriciate everything they've done, including this.

But, man, those MXU tracks are terrible.  Would they even be popular tracks if someone released them on mcmfactory?  I don't think so.  I think they'd get called n00b...everything except for the textures is pretty bad.

The whoops are terrible.  The track is at least twice as wide as it should be.  The jumps are too far apart in most cases.  I mean the track design is just plain bad.  I never liked MXU even 25% as much as I like mcm2.  I could never really pinpoint why.  I had a naggin feeling that it had something to do with the tracks and the floatiness of the physics.  Having now played the tracks on the better airtime physics of mcm2, I see that the problem really comes down to the track design.

Just imagine, if they had released an editor I would now have a new favorite game.  But because I only have the REALLY BAD stock tracks to play, I think the game sucks.

Lets look at what Rainbow accomplished since the release of MCM2.  In other words, what's better about MXU then MCM2?  Better turning, it's be hard to argue against that.  Turning in MXU is way better then MCM2, thanks in part to having a neat brake and clutch that allow you to square stuff off.  Suspension action seems better in MXU, but that's more of a visual thing then actual gameplay.

Now look at what got worse from MCM2 to MXU.  Jumping.  That's what MX is about right?  I hate jumping in MXU...nothing like 300 foot triples.  Ridiculous preload.  You have much more realistic control of the bike in the air in MCM2.  You can whip it in MCM2.  Floaty physics.  Track design took a huge downhill turn.  They obviously made the tracks for 11 year old kids.  And they suck bigtime because of it.  Unrealistic scale, no challenge (ie no bumps anywhere, wussy whoops).  The track design only amplifies the terrible jumping.  Plus, they don't have any online capabilities in MXU.

So anyway, the release of the MXU tracks to mcm2 has really solidified my feelings that MXU was a huge step backwards for the mx game genre.  I was so excited for this game, and so was everyone else.  But in the end, it was such a huge disappoint to me. 

Now, if we could just get the clutch and turning from mxu in mcm2...that would be awesome.  Or get the custom tracks from mcm2 into mxu.  But until that happens, mcm2 still is the best mx game in existance (IMO) and we know this MX vs ATV Unleashed game is only going to be taking another step back.

Sorry for the rant, but I've wanted to say this and have some discussion about it for a long time now.

Yes oh em gee those rainboo gaiz really suck!!111oneone!!!11 I meana, do them guyz think thiz is a game?!½?! :-O!!!! They cna't build realism trax cause U can't pee on the engine to cool it down inside the game right why not huh?!

I R say rainbooh yu n3wbz! I r want mcmfactoryzor population gaiz to make new games now plz plz kthxbai!

[MX45]

from a realistic standpoint, neither game is even close. You say mxu has 300 foot triples and rediculous preload. I'm not sure what you call the jump distance and preload in mcm, but it sure doesnt limit you to only 75 foot jumps. The whoops are not terrable, they are faster than most tracks allow (in mcm) but in mxu, the whoops are great. They are tough to get through, mainly because of the slower corner speed, and slower speed in general around the whole track. I've played a ton of mxu on xbox, and probably about the same amount of laps on the mxu sx tracks that have been released so far in mcm. And I can say in both games, the tracks flow extremely well. Granted in mcm you can do nearly every section in 2 jumps, on jump in, and one jump out. In mxu, you can't deny the tracks flow well, they should after all since they were made for the game. MXU also has rediculous preload, and I agree it has more of a floaty feel, but I think the air time is equal to mcm, its just that you go farther in mcm because of the speed.
You also have to remember what the game companies have to tailor to when they make a game. Sure a bunch of die hard mx fans will buy the game, but so will tons of other people who don't have a clue. What they want is a game where the tracks are easy enough so they won't get discouraged right off. If you ask me, the stock mx track for mcm suck. Talk about unrealistic. And remember the early user made sx tracks made for mcm? They were always wide and easy. Rhythm Nation pops into mind, though its not a real early example. And you can't compare them to the realistic sx tracks (or as close as you can get) of all the Spode reps, rideblues, skymx's, twisted's sx tracks, and twofour's recent desert sx 2, and many others who have been making smaller techy sx's. They are just a whole different breed of tracks.
What it comes down to is that you, and everyone else, is used to mcm. Its what we know, and it is hard to accept a new game, especially by a company we know and love (rainbow, not m$  ) I HATED mxu when it first came out. I played it, beat the game, then never touched it. Then one day I started playing it again, and I grew to love it. Mainly because the tracks flow so well, and I find fun it riding smooth and knocking out fast lap times, and when you set the AI to 125 (difficulty), it really is hard to win.
Just take the tracks for what they are, and not what you think they should be. Maybe you havnt put enough time into either the mxu tracks in mcm, or them in actually mxu. Maybe you have, and you still find the tracks terrible. But like I said, I'm so amazed at how well they flow.
I'm not knocking on any of your thoughts, just continuing the discussion and giving my input.

[AMA_DirtTwister]

I think I would have to disagree.  I think the tracks are excellent.  Yes they aren't desigined for MCM 2.  There is plenty of room to race.  I really don't like the trend to narrow the tracks down. 

I personnally think that they show a level of skill in track building that I really enjoy seeing.  There are many subtleties that I wish were in more tracks.  Yes some of them are easier than others.  One trait they exhibit, which I really like, is that they have lines for all skills.  They are beginner tracks and expert tracks at the same time.

The Nationals are just as good if not better.

Bruce

[MCMnut]

When we started this project many many (too many!) months ago, we realized when we built the first test track that MCM2 would not ride it the same.  We contemplated trying to adjust for that but decided that doing that may take forever and never really accomplish what we were looking for...So we just decided to convert them "as is".  Some tracks ride well while others may be rediculous.  We make no claims that they're "the best MCM2 tracks out there".  They are what they are.  If you find you like a track enough to keep it on your hard drive, then we're happy.

Jeff

[VMX_krazyman821]

I think that everyone here all made valid points and every post was well thought out and well spoken.I myself never played MXU,I like the tracks and I am happy with them and they are still on my hard drive.Great job on TD's behalf.
Personally,once you know the track after a few laps,whether its MCM,MXU or MTX,all the tracks seem easy after awhile...imo..anyway.I cant waiy for the Nats!

[Garasaki]

I didn't in any way shape or form intend to belittle the effort or results of this Twisted Dirt project in this post!  This thread is not a reflection of your work, but my opinion of the mxu tracks. 

KXmotox45, I'm surprised to hear you say you like the whoops in MXU.  I think they are much too tame (this is especially evident when riding the tracks in mcm2) and generally not challenging at all (with a very few exceptions).  I especially was surprised to see you write "they are tough to get thru"...I think they are much too easy!  Increasing the whoop difficulty and adding acceleration/braking bumps would improve MXU signifigantly.

You mentioned the lower corner speed in MXU, and I think that is the one place where MXU is really a step forward from mcm2.  However, creative track makers in mcm2 have figured out ways to slow people down.

When I was talking about air time when comparing mxu and mcm2, I meant I thought the way the bike handled and felt in the air was much better in mcm2.  I didn't necessarily mean that in one or the other you got more air, actually I think you get more air in mxu because of the floaty physics.

I know and understand that MXU has tracks tailored to kids so they'll bug their parents to buy the game.  I know it's a business and it's about making money.  But geez, couldn't they have included another difficulty setting, or more difficult tracks that you unlock?  I mean, I know from reading what ronron says they had harder tracks made, with more whoops and braking bumps, and they choose to take them out of the game.  SOOOOOOOO, they would not have had to spend ANY extra time making those harder tracks, they simply had to include them!!!  arg

I also agree that you can't compare the early MCM(2) tracks to the more recent techy tracks.  I love those techy tracks, they are what I've always wanted in an mx game.  And this whole point is about not being able to compare the MXU tracks to those....I also understand it's a preference thing, but I know I'm not the only one who loves the hardcore techy tracks.

Dirttwister brought up the multiple line thing...which I agree is cool.  I personally really liked the stock MCM2 tracks, and if you ride them back to back on the 125 then the 600, you'll see they are FULL of different lines.  I also much prefer the stock mcm2 tracks to the stock mxu tracks. 

In the end, what really makes me mad is that there wasn't a track editor released to the public.  Obviously everyone has their own idea of what a good track is like.  I feel that track creators could have created tracks that both took advantage of the improvements in mxu and offset the negatives (ie dealt with the floaty physics) and in the end we'd have a game as legendary as mcm2.  I know this is really a subject that was discussed to death before the release of the game but I haven't seen much on it since...

[MX45]

let me rephrase what I said about the whoops when riding in mxu. They arent exactly tough to get through in mxu, but because of the game's physics, you go alot slower than you do in mcm. So when comparing the same track in mxu and mcm, the whoops are tougher to keep your speed up in mxu.

As Bruce said, there are many subtleties iin the mxu tracks that really make the difference between a well made and thought out track. You can take advantage of these to pick your lines in both mxu and mcm.

If you do go back to playing mxu on whatever consol you have, try the pro physics if you have not already. It makes even more of a difference in the corners. Also if you don't know, you can gain a little extra distance to clear the hard jumps by rocking the bike backward, then forward with the break on while in the air. Its similar to how you get extra distance with the whip technique in mcm.

It gets confusing taling about mcm and mxu at the same time lol 

[HaB Stealth0]

I actually think that some of the mxu converterd tracks are some of the best tracks mcm have seen.. my opinion tho

[ATR_RaTaX2]

THe tracks imo are really awesome, only problem is the very very loose splines

[WCR_Rip]

My thoughts on the MXU tracks that are converted to MCM2 is their pretty easy, but thats because they weren't designed for this game obviously so I can ride them every so often w/o too much of a problem but I'd much rather ride something different. But as far as the work you guys did to make whatever it was that you needed too to make these work in MCM2 is Awesome! The tracks probably work better in MCM2 than any of the originals or user made since, and by that I mean that I've never been stuck on a bale, hooked to a post or embedded half way into the banners! I'm not sure how lose the spline is in MXU but in MCM2 their WAY to open. I've actually jump over the banners that divide the track in sections where the track does a u-turn and landed going the wrong way and never had the #'s even show up but thats no sweat of my N***.
What I think people seem to forget about is that this is a GAME!! It is not and never will be "like the real thing" and why everyone wants it to feel more like its "real" is missing the point! The reason why we (most) people play games is for that certain amount of the "Unreal" in real life things that games allow you to do, like being able to sometimes launch these huge jumps at unreal speeds and be able to pull them off (but not always) If I want it to be more "realistic" I would just go jump on my bike and have it. My point being that if there wasn't that certain amount of the Impossible that the game gives you then there's really no reason for anyone to stay interested. Probably could of gotten it across in a shorter post but did'nt happen sorry, lol 

[mcm2boys]

Everything on these tracks is pretty much as Rainbow made it and we don't want to change that. We have translated the MXU files to MCM2 format, which sounds easy (like it's only 9 words) but it has taken us a few months solid work to do the few you have seen so far. The splines do seem to be a problem, so we are tightening them up on future releases, to make it more sensible.


Laurie

[X_MikeB43]

I want to thank each and every one of you that worked on converting these tracks. They are fun, different and make the game more interesting. Sure hope that Rainbow takes notice and rethinks their point on making an MCM3 for the PC. Can't wait for the Nats to be released.

Good job to all...     They made me come back for another round.... Never had the heart to delete MCM2 from my system. 

[51]

i wish the scale of these tracks was like half of what it is. seems to be no challenge to them. but as far as the creation, disps, tex, objects, scene...really really top notch stuff guys.

[mk7bultaco]

I have not purchased MXU, nor do I intend to. As such, I have no experience on how these tracks ride in that game.
My comments are strictly limited to how the converted tracks run in MCM2, and I think they work great. Sure, most of them are kind of easy after you learn them; but initially they are NEW and FRESH and FUN to ride.
Eventually, even the tracks created specifically for MCM2 by the dedicated track making community become easy to run after a while. That is the nature of the beast, and the reason why we all look forward to new releases.
Enjoy what the folks at Twisted Dirt have done for all of us. Ride and race on the new tracks with unfettered abandon. Afterward, keep the tracks that you might want to revisit some day, and delete the others.
The show will go on!

[VMX_krazyman821]

Bultaco,I dont know what your chosen profession is in life......but I hope it's some form of journalism...your way with words is amazing.I for one,always look forward to your comments on new track,you have a great way of describing tracks and make me want to d/l new tracks even more.Keep it up,we need more guys like you around here.  BTw,there will be a new realease from me soon(shameless plug) and I look forward to your comments on it.It will be called "Melting Mountain",yeah,it's a snow themed track. Sorry,off topic a bit.Btw,again,MCM2 is the superior game here.......

[VMX_SKYmx99]

I agree with Noel.  You always have very complete precise reviews man.

You know when Bultaco says "THIS TRACK IS A COMPLETE PACKAGE"  That it is gonna be good.

[VMX_krazyman821]

  WORD!

[cR]

yeah... what he said... WORD...