MVA Physics....So close but yet so far!

[Bulldog]

So, what do you all think about the new physics in MVA?  I have been playing around with some of my SX tracks from MCM2 in MVA and they almost ride how I envisioned them to ride.  Almost being the key word here.  I love the turning, breaking, clutch and how the bike reacts to bumps.  However I still hate the gravity.  It kind of cracks me up because if you read the little manual that comes with the game it says you can't adjust the gravity to in the editor to make lunar like gravity for your tracks.  I don't know why in the world they said that because MVA is already on the friggin moon!

All they have to do is adjust the gravity to be more realistic and it would be a near perfect physic engine.  I don't even mind the preload now because I think it is more realistic and controlled.  If only the bike didn't "float", and actually "dropped" like it should, everything would be great.  But since this isn't the case I still have a hard time getting SX tracks to ride the way I want them to and the way they SHOULD ride.  Which is pretty frustrating to say the least.

So what do all you other track creators think about the new physics?  Please post your thoughts.

Pete

[RKipker]

I hear ya... I also am surprised at how little you crash when you really should and how often you crash when you think you shouldn't... Get that!

Anyway, it is so far ahead of the original MCM2 game.  You need to be away from MCM2 for a few years (like I did) and then you can really see the difference, like when you play the original game with out the TD tracks and plugging corrections and bike loaders, etc...etc...!

Looking forward to riding a few tracks you had Pete... l;et me know when you we can.... just for FYI stuff.

RK

[Bulldog]

Yeah, I hear you Randall.  And don't get me wrong....the physics are light years ahead of MCM2.  I just wish that they would have changed the gravity to be a little bit more realistic like they did everything else.

Pete

[Fixer]

Are you running the "pro" physics?

I noticed the bike stays on the ground more. I think the "lack of gravity" is to give the kids more time to do their stunts.

The bike is much better but in certain situations just about anything can happen, I've hung my front wheel in ruts @ full speed only to be stopped dead - do a 180 or 360 on the front wheel and never crash.-

You can lay the bike on it's side sometimes and never crash.

On tight terrain at slow speeds the bike can skip off the land in unpredictable and unrealistic ways.

[Bulldog]

Yep, I always set it to "Pro" physics.  I have noticed the same things you mentioned.  But the "floating" just bothers me.  I think you are right about the reason they left it that way.  But I don't understand why they would go as far as adding the "Pro" physics option and not have it affect the gravity as well as everything else that it changes.  It just doesn't make sense to me.  But then I have never been accused of thinking like a "normal" person.   

Pete

[VMX_D-Dub]

The physics kick ass.
That's all I have to say.

[The_Trevinator]

I have experienced a few of those wacky incidents, but the one that really gets me is being able to case huge jumps without wrecking.  Just lean way back upon impact, and apply the throttle and your good to go.  Your rider should end up like Seth Enslow attempting a world record, overshooting the landing and modifying his forhead.

[DirtTwister]

I've never experienced the floating feeling that everyone keeps mentioning.  Especially since the bike doesn't jump as far as MCM 2.  I do notice that I can't bring it down like you can in MCM 2 by whipping the bike.  You could lay the bike over and drop it down.   It doesn't seem to do that at all in MVA.

I do notice that you can get a little extra up lift with the double preload that seems a little wierd if you trigger it accidently.

All in all I like the way that bike reacts. It completely reminds me of MX Mania with a whip instead of a roll.  I would love to use the first person view exclusively but while racing online I find I need the larger view of riding from behind.

The oddities in the physics that I have seen is when you ride on extreme terrain.  The bike wants to be perpendicular to the terrain.  So if you ride on the side of a hill it wants to stick out from the hill.

The aspects that I really like is the fact that even though you can land some bad jumps (it does cost you time when you do   it), I still have gone over the handlebars when doing the same thing on a different jump.  I have spun the bike around on my front wheel if I land a little sidewards with my weight forward.  Even though I didn't fall I also lost time.  I like the front end push, but I wish that pushing your weight forward didn't guarantee that you will make the turn.  I would like it to work up to a certain speed (depending on traction) and then require you to get your weight forward and back off the throttle.

Bruce

[Bulldog]

I agree that you don't go near as far as in mcm2.  But by floating I'm referring to the fact that the bike does not drop naturally.  In real life after an object hits its peak height and starts its decent it will increase speed as it comes down.  MVA does not do that so you float.  If it does do this its not noticeable to me and the rate of drop acceleration should be increased to be more natural.  But this "float" makes it so you can jump a lot farther than you should be able to just like in mcm2, just not nearly as bad.  If they would fix this problem racing SX tracks would be a whole new (much more realistic) experience and would also make the racing much more competitive because proper timing would be even more important than it is now.

I really like the first person view also.  But it seems like you are a little lower to the ground than you should be.  Or at least compared to the first person view in MX Mania it does.  I still like MX Mania's first person view a little better then MVA.

I don't mind the carshing aspects...I still do pleanty of crashing.    I also still lose a lot of time from my many mistakes so I don't see that as much of a problem.

Pete

[ElDiablo (Paul)]

I see what you mean Pete and Bob...but I don't see it as that much of an issue. It's probably one of the smallest issues in my book. I'd much rather see Rainbow spend their time working on mutliplay and UI aspects of the game as well as the bugs and the editor issues.

I actually really like the physics and thus far have not seen another game that comes closer to real motocross. There are some issues, I'll grant you that. But all-in-all I'm pretty happy with the physics. The way the bike rides and slides is fairly realistic and forces you to make good line choices, especially when you want to get around somebody.

Actually the biggest problem that I have with the physics is bumping other riders. First off...it would be HELLA nice to actually be able to SEE when you make contact with another rider. Usually you only see it if THEY make contact with YOU. If it's the other way around...you never get the satisfaction of knowing that you stuffed someone from SEEING it happen! Also...when you contact another rider THEY loose speed most often and you do not (it's not always that way...but more often than not it has been that way in my experience). Lately I've been getting horrible lag in multiplayer games (IP and Gamespy). I wind up lagging in a corner and before I can see what's happened I'm facing a rock or tree and can't avoid hitting it usually...but if I do...I lose all my speed and screw up the next section.

[Fixer]

I can certainly live with the bike as it is and just hope for some refinements down the road, the idea of different physics models is a good one and could be taken even further.

What is really needed  is MORE FPS. A redesigned in game menu ( I mentioned this when the game was first announced) Yes-No, Ok, are you sure, OK,are you sure... ,better graphic detail settings for weaker computers, higher res terrain and texture maps, custom object support, custom sky support, a light model that works like MCM2.  Support for User track pictures, a better menu to support multiple user tracks- I only have a few and it's already a joke setting up a track to run. Ghost racing on user tracks. Being able to switch between the rider's views in a race.  I could go on but basically everything we lost from our old an outdated- 7 year old MCM2.

Since most of this is probably to much for to ask for, how about a new game that gives us everything MCM2 was only taken up a notch or 2 or 7 and gets on par with some of the current games that are available both graphics and design wise.  From what I've been seeing a lot of creators aren't happy with the way things are and won't even make tracks to release with the game in it's current state. I don't see anywhere near the same level of interest in general as compared to MCM2 when it was released

[RKipker]

Bob... I'm in!  The UI is totally XBOX... so many confirmations!

Pete I see the floating... but really believe it is for the extra fun aspect.... but you would think the pro graphics would have corrected that.  Actually, I don't see much difference between the pro physics vs. the race physics.

I think the biggest draw back is quite possibly Rainbo really don't care about the online racing aspect or if it lives as long as MCM2 did.  I also don't think they are very concerned with the user creator tracks being that user friendly.... I think it was mostly added to sell the PC version and it works good enough for most folks to make a track and  ride it.  Grant it they get frustrated with the difficulty level and won't make many.... but again, it delivered the impact required to sell the PC version.

Still a fun game... but not the Classic MCM2, tough... remember it was mostly TD that's kept this game alive, IMHO!

RK

[Garasaki]

Oh, where to begin...

I have always hated the floating, ever since MXU.  It's not as bad in this game, especially since the user tracks can control this to a degree.  And it seems like any feeling of big air in MvA is gone, because of the floating feeling.  A 30 foot jump feels like a 300 foot jump, and vice versa.

I feel like control in the air is much worse in MvA then MCM2.  I could REALLY throw PHAT whips in mcm2, that was my favorite part of the game.  I can't do anything close to one in MvA.  The rider always tries to croutch over the bike instead of lean off it.  Also, the bike dosen't seem to pivot at the steering head in the air.  It's like the steering head is welded tight.

However, I do love the turning physics.  I love everything about them.  It's such a gigantic step up from MCM2.  So much so, even though I know they aren't prefect, I just plain don't care.

I love the way the bike responds to rough terrian as well as uphills.  I love the way you can really pack the front end down when you are braking or going downhill and hit some bumps.  I love the way the bike "floops" and wiggles around when you case smaller jumps.  I love the way you really do have to be precise to keep your speed up on SX style tracks.  And I love the way the bike flys all over on Nats.

I remember reading one of you TD guys mentioning how much you can tune the different variables in MvA when you "crack" it or whatever.  Weight and gravity were specifically mentioned.  I think it would/will be really interesting to play with some of that, and see if the floatiness can be resovled.  I also suspect that when the floatiness is eliminated, the ability to whip will be improved.