hey fellas just wondering if theres any word on splines and objects cuz im trying to make like a trail ride/sx for reflex.
-Maniacs Pulse
Hey Pulse,
Still working on getting a compiling version of the editor. It can compile the textures needed for the terrain, but it still needs to build the scene and level files before that's completely working. It also needs to be able to read/write the track files that the compiler uses so it can compile your exisitng track projects.
We have decompiled splines and a lot of the model format is worked out, but the basic stuff needs to be working and tested before we start adding those to the editor - so that will come in a later release of the editor but are next on the todo list.
Laurie
awsome! great to hear that you guys are still working on it. just trying to keep the game alive. much thanks! from the Maniacs crew!
Thanks for the Info update Laurie :D
just wondering how the editors coming along?, its been a bit dead here lately. whats everyone up to?
ive been trying to learn how to make mx simulator tracks and models at the moment.... ive got a fair bit to learn....lol especially with models.
cheers al167
Hey Al,
Progress has been slower than i'd hoped, but it always is. I am working on displaying the models using one of RBW's shaders, but that's not happened yet. I can place models, and i have done some work on compiling the models into the track, but more needs to be done. My first attempt at the model library needs to be improved to include more info, like the name of the collision file.. I need to handle model deletions and then finally display and edit model properties..
After that we will be ready for some beta testing..
Laurie
thats good to hear its still being worked on. what file type are the models?
It will always be worked on - it's how i like to unwind..
The models are in RBW's own format and this time it's different to the formats i've seen them use before..
So would there be much chance of us being able to create our own objects??
I want to write a Milkshape3D plugin as I've done for other titles. I'd really like to put a model editor into the editor, or maybe import 3DMax models and convert them in the editor. I've only quickly looked at the collision files so far and they also seem different.
happy to hear these news !! continue :) place a model editor or a model converter directly in the editor would be really great
Theres no way your gonna get a model editor in there.
Just write a script for export (Milkshape or 3ds) and a collision program like the last one you built.
I know I'd make a few custom models xD
That might be just enough taunting to make me give it a try.. :)
never say never to Laurie ;D
Haha I didnt mean to taunt, its just a 3d modeler is rather large in size.
But it would be aweasome to get that.
I have a question, as you know there is a Gieco honda.
Now, when some one is running that and you dont have the skin the bike shows up as stock.
With that being the case why cant we have our custom skins work the same way??
Wouldn't that only work for that 'slot' ?
At least everyone could run there own skin but only they would see it?
or can you add it as dlc?
I didn't work on the Geico skin, that was a project that Bruce and Scawn7 worked on. It would be possible to add user skins but at the moment i don't know the details of how that would work.
For the 3d modeler, once you have a render engine that works, all you need is some editing functions and you've got an editor, it won't be 3D Max but it's a start.. But first i'll try to get the other stuff working..
laurie you are one bad ass, crazy to think that youd maybe have a go at it!!!! ;D
im hanging for the next release!!
stevo your pretty good at making gear, maybe if you get in contact with bruce or scawn7, you might be able to help them finish off what they started.
(they where planning on making a dlc pack with all the current bikes and teams)
cheers al167
I would get in touch with Bruce, scawn7 moved on and i think was planning on getting involved in other titles, maybe it was MXS.
Progress on the editor: I have spent a lot of time trying to get the RBW model shaders to work, but some of the shadowing parameters have me stumped at the moment. The models were coming out all black (full shadow) so that's not much use. I am now writing some simpler shaders, without shadows, and will come back to the RBW shaders later. I'm hoping this will speed things along a bit.
For those interested i've got my own shaders working for models now, and it's possible to place and rotate objects in the editor. I am currently working on the track compiling, putting all the right model files and referemces in the right places in the track file set.
Still to do are, saving the track objects into the *.track files, selecting the object (for deleting and editing model parameters) and the model parameter editing functions.
Laurie
great work! sound like you had a bit of a win. hope to do some beta testing soon ;D
on another note, i was playing a stock reflex track and i was watching some background stuff like the crowds movements ect and it seems there is a heap of animations, when you talk of models, does that include animations? i also love the piro (fireworks) when you finish/ start a race . is that something for further down the track maybe? these small thing really make reflex the great game it is?
thanks for the update
Guys if to you don't write - it doesn't mean that your work isn't necessary!!! I have passed one day without a forum the TWISTED DIRT))) But I badly speak in English, and I understand nothing in prgramirovanii - because of it I have nothing to tell... Many thanks for your work!!! It great!! Continue, and a question on skin, we can see new skin in the near future???? In what complexity???
I would prefer to get the RBW shaders to work with shadows etc but that will have to wait. You're right Al there is a lot of animation in the stock tracks, and that won't make it into the next editor release. The models will all be single as well so you will have to build the stadiums up from of all the separate parts. But all this will come eventually.. and i agree these small things are important..
karpuha, thanks. The skins haven't been started yet, but i think we want to see it happen..
Laurie
Excuse, but I read - about 19 ready skin, in that ruler was told about GEICO schedules)))) My English bad (((I haven't correctly understood????? All the same THANKS!!!! If you - don't make anybody won't make!!! Continue work, we)))
When i said skins, what i mean is a program to install custom skins if that makes it clearer..
Sounds like you're making good progress Laurie! :)
What's the situation with bump mapping / normal mapping on objects? Is this a possibility? Oh! And specular mapping too, for bright lights etc.
Also, has there been any progress with correcting the bump mapping alignment on the terrain? Will this be corrected in the next release? It's something I'm really looking forward to.
Once again, thanks for your continued support for this game :)
- Jamie
It does feel like we're getting there..
I have only been thinking about getting the obejcts to work, the details will get cleared up once the basics are up and running. This release will only support stock objects, so bump mapping of objects should be the same as you see in the stock tracks, if it isn't then hopefully that's something that can be worked out in the beta testing.
I haven't made any changes to the terrain bump mapping mainly because i haven't come up with any theories as to why it's not working. I seem to remember in the discussion that followed your comments about the issue that al167 came up with a theory, i'll take another look when i release to the beta testers during the testing round.
I have now got the models to compile into the track files, but before i can test it fully i need to upgrade the model library structure which is what is being worked on now..
Thanks for encouragement
Cheers
Laurie
I remember speaking to al167 after I made that post, and he realised that he was getting the same problem as me.
I've uploaded a few images to mediafire to show the bump mapping problem.
http://www.mediafire.com/?nqfxi8f8ngnclac
http://www.mediafire.com/?3b3u16x3i63u638
http://www.mediafire.com/?w0ji515oe104ihl
http://www.mediafire.com/?11xk8qees65vhwx
My theory is that the RGB-mask that is being applied to the bump maps, gets doubled in size, compared with the mask that is applied to the textures. The origin for the scalling seems to be the centre of the terrain.
I've kept the stock textures/bump maps that you start with in Digital Earthworks.
Thanks for reminding me and the diagnostic images, i know where to start looking now...
I did another test, and it appears that the larger, 2048 size tracks, do not have this problem. I have also tested the different sized bump maps, (256, 512, 1024) and all is good with those too.
So the problem only occurs on the smaller 1024 sized tracks.
Hope that helps narrow down the problem.
I'm guessing that one of the track sized textures has a fixed size (at 2048) or there is a scaling value that's not set properly since the base file set is taken from a national, i'll trawl through some of the variables and see if i have missed something..
Found the problem and now i have an understanding of the model files so it can be fixed. The bump mapping is applied through a model which is a 2 poly square the size of the terrain. The base file set is using a fixed file taken from a national and so it is probably causing some problems on the SX tracks because of the different sizing. This model will have to be built on the fly at compile time to match the size of the track..
Progress update: trying to build a model library with all necessary model, collision and sound data and optimise it to speed up compile times. That will make it possible to complete the compilation procedures and test them..
Thanks for the update Laurie.
That's interesting about the bump maps, being applied with a separate poly... I would have thought that they would be applied in a similar way to the textures, as they both use the RGB Mask... but obviously not! :P
Sounds like you're getting very close with objects, also. :) Feels like they are just around the corner.. :D
(Once again) Thanks Laurie!
I should add that i haven't tested this theory yet, but that's the indication from what i can see in the files.. :)
Yeah, objects shouldn't be too far away now. I don't want to make any promises, since when i do, something always seems to come up. I hope it should only be a few weeks before the beta, well more like alpha testers, get a chance to try it out.
i have two new tracks im working on but waiting for objects before release!!!!! one is mt Kembla Mx complex (sydney Australia) and the other is a fantasy sx.
honestly i cant wait!!!!!
It would great if i could somehow get the las vegas stadium for the 2012 mec cup into reflex which is coming up soon, it may be a bit of an ask but is it possable to add this to models library? as custom models will be a while away i guess.. google earth (sketchup)sam boyd stadium link :
http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/details?mid=cc51223c71f1c69cc2e1b301e5eed495&hl=en (http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/details?mid=cc51223c71f1c69cc2e1b301e5eed495&hl=en)
cheers allan
Isn't that stadium already in there somewhere, seems familiar - maybe it's in Unleashed..
To build just the model for Reflex would need tools - it's too much to do it manually, poly by poly and that's going to take time. Then there is the collision file to build.. It might be a while off yet..
Once the library is finished and the thing compiles something useful i'll let it out to alpha testers, it will be buggy but you might be able to work through that to get a track working with models.. I hope to get to that in a few weeks
It depends on the skill of the modeler as to how long it would take to model.
As for the collisions they wouldn't need to be flash and what about the collision creator from unleashed??
Hey Stevo,
When i said build the models, i should have said convert them to Reflex files - i didn't mean modelling them. I haven't yet looked at the collision files, so they could be the same as the Unleashed format, but i'm guessing they will have changed from unleashed - if not then that will speed up getting custom models nito Rreflex..
Hey Laurie,
I just wondered about trees and vegetation... Are these classed as "objects", or are they classed as an "EcoSystem", like the previous Rainbow games? I'd be interested to hear if trees will be included in the next release.
Also, water... I see that reflex has some form of fluid simulation, have you come across this type of "model" yet within the reflex files?
Thanks
-Jamie
The trees do come in an eco system, not sure if individual tree objects could be placed, not good for forests etc but would give some sense of reality. I have a feeling they won't workas single objects because they are more complex models with extra textures for billboarding but yo never know until you try..
I haven't taken time out to look at the water objects yet, i think that might just be simple 2 poly models with all the work done with shaders, so that might be a case of placing exisiting water models from the stock model library.. Again this is a guess..
Just a quick update to let those interested where the development of the editor has got to. I have objects compiling into the files now. It's possible to add and delete them. Selecting objects in the track is via a dropdown list, so it's a little clunky but will get changed to click on the object before general release. Reading and writing the objects to the *.track file is next, and then it should be ready for the beta testers while the rest is cleaned up and the bugs fixed before the general release.
Laurie
That's great news Laurie.
There's something I have been wondering... How will the object rotation matrix work?
If I remember correctly, (it has been a long time), UE2's local rotation matrix for an object, would remain in the same orientation as the world matrix. I will try to explain this a little better, because rotation matrices, and the correct words to use, confuse the crap out of me...
For example,
I place a bale, and rotate it 45 degrees about the Y axis. (eg. rotation for marking out, the outside of a turn)
I then rotate the bale around it's Z axis ( eg. tilt the bale, because the outside of the turn is sloped, like a berm)
I then encountered a problem, because rotating around Z axis, would cause a rotation in the local X axis.
This is because I rotated the object first in the Y axis. But the local rotation matrix for Z & X axis didnt not adjust with the Y axis rotation.
I hope this makes sense? :-\
-Jamie
Hey Jamie,
Sounds like you know a fair bit more than most.. I think there was an option in Dillo Too to switch between local and global rotations for objects. But i can put the same thing into this - it uses the same code base so it's probably still in there somewhere and just needs wiring up. There will also be a number of object assistant functions like 'orient to ground' so you can rotate it and it should stay oriented to the ground. That used to also be in Dillo Too so should just be a case of connecting it up. The early beta version may not have these functions working but they will be by the time it's released..
I must have missed those functions back in Dillo Too, or maybe I forgot they were there... Like I say, it has been a while. I just remember it being a problem for me at one point, whilst I was making tracks. But it's good to hear that you have the code for such features, and that it will be included eventually. :)
Also, the feature in Dillo Too that allowed shadows from objects, to be cast on to the ground, and then rendered to a black and white image, would be great too for the final release :) I noticed that not many unleashed track creators used this feature, but it really gives a more professional and complete look to the environment.
Cheers
- Jamie
I don't think the option was in a very handy place - the options tab - not the first place you think to go look for it. I'll add a button on the Objects tab this time. The shadows for Reflex are completely different, it uses it's own form of shadow map which is a form of Height map so the shadow function from D2 won't help here.. I will need to look into those too otherwise it's all going to look a bit a flat.
I don't think many people used UE2, there was no need with the stock editor being pretty good, since it didn't add much. Not many people wanted to learn a new editor just for a few minor tweaks, which is fair enough..
Laurie
Yeah that is true... but UE2 allowed for "HD" displacement maps. which I thought it was well worth learning, just for that! :)
Well, even though the shadows are different, I think that the rendering function I mentioned, could still be useful, because that black and white image can be added into the chrome lum, to give the appearence of shadows being cast on to the ground. I think the stock tracks feature this in their chrome lums. (Although I may be wrong, as I haven't gone back to look as write this).
So if it's possible, and not too much work, I think this would be a very useful feature.
I hadn't thought of that, i'll take a look at doing something with it..
As some of you might have seen the editor can now be used to place objects. It is stil being tested and the last few issues are being cleaned up. Then the help file will need updating before it gets released.
It looks really cool :) Glad to see you do it! The first track I saw is nice. I am angry against the fact of not having free time as before to make new tracks ...
Hey Gagnetan.
It's getting closer to release. The last function being added is system to place groups of objects, so that stadiums can be placed in the right place with a single click instead of trying to place and line up each part of the stadium. Then i will need to add more to the help file and then it should be ready to go..
Maybe by then you will have more time for track making..
Ok it looks good ! I hope I will have more free time. I think I will try something... My dream was to make the Replica of the SX of Bercy for reflex, because with objects I think it can be really good. But it take very much time, and now i'm in an ingineer school, so the time is counted.
I think I will try to finish a track I had begun...
I have a question, do you know more about the textures ? Because I never succed to make texture like in the tracks of the game, with really cool colors and real look definition : like sand very different than a wet dirt... and I never found how add the tire tracks like bulldozers
I also want to know if you will work on the lights, and if it will be possible to make new skins for bikes and riders, because I think with a track editor, these are the two things that make a game alive...
I hope you will try to do it !
Good luck and again : VERY BIG THANKS :)
The Frenchman Gagnetan