I'm trying to find a spline I've imported into UE2, but I don't see it anywhere, I've looked through the entire track. It's not where the coordinates for the spline say it should be. Is there any reason it wouldn't show up?
Not sure, if you send the TDF file i'll take a look. There is an overall offset as well as the offset for each spline pt in the file either could have been changed when it was saved. I'm guessing the spline comes from RBW's unleashed editor?
Here's a link to a rar containing the spline, prj, and pak files: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=RM0PNK6S
Yeah, the spline is from the rbw editor. I need to use UE2 to make the spline go onto the perimeter around thunder alley.
Thanks for your help.
hmm, looks like UE2 still needs a lot of tidying up in some areas and the spline is one of them. First of all because of the way the RBW editor saves Splines it's not always easy to work out where it should go, they seem to always save it with a zero offset, because the offset is relative to the track tile, but UE2 needs an absolute offset, so in this case you will find your spline in the top left tile after you have loaded it into UE2.
There are some buttons in the spline roll-down that let you move the spline offset up/down and left/right. First select your spline, then because your grid scale is 3.5 enter 896 into the box next to the buttons, (3.5 x 256= width of 1 tile) and then click each of these buttons twice (you can obviously do this a couple of different ways so experiment if you want to). :)
This should have moved the spline from the tile(0,0) to tile(2,2) which is the center tile of a 5x5 tile terrain like you are using.
I did this for you already and exported the result the link is below..
Vegas_Spline_2.tdf (http://www.twisteddirt.com/mcm2boys/Vegas_Spline_2.tdf)
I can see by looking at the spline that you didn't click out the spline that lies outside of the main tile in the RBW editor, this might cause you some problems if you try to finish it off using UE2, since I'm not sure how well UE2 creates splines. If this doesn't work for you then you might have a better luck by creating the whole spline in the RBW editor (maybe using a 1/2 scale copy of the dispmap or just a 1/2 copy of the tex on a flat dummy terrain) then scale the spline up using UE2, which will just change the spline pt offsets without changing any of the other spline data - which UE2 might have an issue with.
good luck, let me know how it goes.
Laurie
Thanks for your help, I can see the spline now.
I decided to try your method of making the entire spline in the rbw editor and upscaling it by 50% in UE2, but I can't find the button to increase the scale. Should I just move each point by hand?
EDIT: I've manually enlarged the spline, but I'm unable to change the position of the start gate. It's automatically been set as a random point in one of the turns. How do I change its location? I was able to adjust the finish line, but didn't see the same button for the start gate.
The buttons should be right under the spline selection drop-down, it's possible i removed them in the last released version since the spline functions aren't working fully.
You can't move the start in UE2, it's always the first point in the spline, since i don't use the RBW editor i'm not sure what possibilities they allow but sounds like it's something they do.
It's possible that if you've only moved points around, that the settings in the spline still mean that the start is in the same place as you set it in the RBW editor, it just displays differently in UE2.
Did you try it in game?
I've got the start gate in the right place now, but when I when I export a pak from UE2, and load it ingame, the game crashes.
I've uploaded a rar with the prj, pak, and tdf files: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=Q04GTK3E
You'll need to add a new activity and load the spline.
Thanks again for your help.
I renamed the spline to remove the paces, and removed the stadium objects and then it seemed to work in game, but there is a glitch in the spline on the loop outside the stadium where you get called back.. not sure why
here's a link to the PAK i got to run ..
http://www.twisteddirt.com/mcm2boys/2007_Las_Vegas_SX_2.zip
I finally got the spline working ;D I put thunder alley as the center tile, so I could place the start gate in the rainbow editor, then used UE2 to add the finish gate in the right place. Then I just had to export the spline and use it to replace the spline in the pak you sent.
Thanks for all your help Laurie. I'll probably have even more questions before the track is finished :p
Truth is not many people are using UE2 so i'm not getting much feedback on what's going wrong and where. It's always harder being a pioneer, glad to hear you got it working, you've given me some more ideas about things to improve, like a place start button.
No problem with more questions, i just might be a bit slow replying, but if you have the patience..
cool so it is possible
yep...Laurie can answer some questions. It IS possible! lol (j/k)
Thanks Nikhil for blazing the way.
I'm working on a double disp map too (maybe even more then double??).
Hows object placement work? Did you make 9 unique tiles or just a center and side? How bout textures? Again, 9 unique (is that possible?) or just 2??
It seems to me, if you can make a spline and scale it by 2 to make it fit on 2 tiles, it'd be just as easy to make a spline that, essentially, covers all 9 tiles - compile all 9 tiles into one tga, create the spline in the editor, export, then scale by 3...right??
I hear that you can do 9 unique disp map tiles using UE2 (I don't know if it's true), but if so, it seems like you should be able to do what I discribe to utilize all the possible tiles...
Biggest questionmark to me is objects (possible to do unique objects on each tile??) and textures...
6 Unique tiles is the most we've been able to achieve. One of those being the repeated perimeter of course. So you have 5 tiles that you can use as completely different (edges must match of course) tiles to do with what you will.
You can go up to 7x7 tiles in an environement but as Paul said there is a max. of 5 unique tiles [track] + 1 repeated [perimeter], in fact any of them could be repeated however UE2 doesn't support copying a tile from 1 position in the tile grid to another yet so at the moment only 1 tile can be repeated.
As for objects i'm afraid you will have to use UE2 to place any objects outside of the center tile (if you are using a 5x5 terrain in the RBW editor), since the RBW editor simply doesn't support the exotic tile arrangements, so there is no way to get the TRN into the editor and so it would be impossible to place objects. With UE2 you can put unique objects wherever, and their textures, just like in the RBW editor, i'm not sure why you think this would be a problem, maybe i missed something.. The only thing i can think of that might be a problem is the UE2 generated shadows, i'm not sure i have re-worked the shadow generator to handle the multi tile arrangements.
Hope this helps, i'm happy to see people starting to use UE2, but you'll have to be patient since it still has quite a few issues that you will need to learn to workaround..
Quote from: mcm2boys on October 02, 2007, 04:33:20 AM
...and their textures, just like in the RBW editor, i'm not sure why you think this would be a problem, maybe i missed something..
I was refering the the terrain textures, not the object textures (my phrasing wasn't real clear). I think that is our disconnect there.
I'm a little confused by the references to the terrain sizes you guys are refering to. I only recall a 3x3 grid size, for which 6 unique tiles make a lot of sense, sort of like this (r = repeated tile, u# = unique tile number):
r - u1 - r
u2 - u3 (center tile) - u4
r - u5 - r
But you refer to both 5x5 and 7x7 ? I recall from mcm2 that there were different tile arrangements based on the type of track but I didn't think you had much choice with MvA.
I guess I have a lot of questions on the whole process but I do have faith that it will all work out in the end. I just need to cross one bridge at a time, know what I mean?
Anyway, I'm glad that you guys are working down this road, and it's really great that UE2 allows us to do some of these things.
You can import textures on a per tile basis which for repeated tiles will change all similar tiles. You can also import a 2nd size of texture (not a double sized HD tex, but ..) which adds a rim of 8 pixels around the edge so that when the textures are sliced up you can make sure you get a better match around the edges.
As for the tile arrangements, you're right MCM used 3 standard arrangements 3x3 5x5 and 6x6, and MVA as standard uses 1x1 and 5x5 which is all the RBW editor will support. But i added a new button to UE2 so that you can create a template arrangement anywhere from 2x2 to 7x7. You can then use this template to import tiles into. That's where the 7x7 comes from..
Ok I've now actually bothered to open up UE2 and check it out...it's fairly apparent how the disp map, repeated tiles, and the tiles in general work.
One stupid question, once I screw around with stuff in UE2, can I open the track in the RBW editor to do stuff again>?
I guess there's not much point...nothing I can't do in UE2...I'm just used to the RBW editor now...
You can still open the PROJECT file in the RBW editor, since UE2 doesn't mess with that, and the RBW editor only works with the PROJECT. But if you pack the track using the RBW editor it will overwrite anything you saved using UE2.. One thing to watch though is that UE2 will 'finger print' the PROJECT and PAK files to make sure the PROJECT and the PAK file are from the same track so screwing with the PROJECT file might stop you re-opening the PROJECT using the 'New' button under UE2 unless you re-pack the PAK file to match the changes you made to the PROJECT file. Once you have saved the PAK using UE2 with a password you will always be able to open it using the 'Open' button and the password, even after changing the PROJECT.
The RBW editor let's you edit 1 tile - the track tile and additionally 1 perimeter tile if you select an outdoor terrain, so you can't really edit the track with RBW editor if your making a track that has any tile configuration different to that. If the terrain is an outdoor type (5x5) then theoretically you could still use it pretty simply to place objects and trees but you will need to cut and paste from the SCN|TOY etc files into the UE2 track files.. since the offsets would still be the same, but the height probably would be wrong on the custom tile that you add..
I'm not exactly sue that this is a spline problem, but..
After I finished my 257x257px disp (it was made on 513x13px in PS as the plan was to go HD after I had finished my disp) and had everything working. The bike was just aligning with the terrain the way it should at the starting line.
Now I have converted the whole thing to HD using EU2. After doing this however, the front end of the bike is pitched 45 degrees into the air when you're behind the starting gate. After the gate drops, the tire drops to the ground as well.
Is there anyway to keep the front tire from floating in the air?
Sounds like it's the gate you are using? I had to manually adjust all the "vectors" in the .scn to use the MXU gates for the MXU remakes Laurie & I did.
Hmm, have anymore info on what exactly to change then please?
I tried rotating it, as it was completely off in the begining. When the gate was supposed to be up, it was kissing the floor, when it dropped, it would stand up.
This didn't change the bike/rider posistion though. That stayed the same through the whole process.
Thanks in advance!
John
Sorry John
i remember seeing the problem but i don't remember what the solution was. It may have been something to do with the TOY file, [dropgate] settings but i really don't know..
You'll need fixer for this i think..
Laurie
I assume you are using a MXU gate? I never came up with a formula to reset the angles because it depended on the direction it was facing relative to the map. You do need to change the amount of rotation to 90 degrees instead of 60. This will get the bike's wheel off the gate (toy file). If it's not dropping in the right direction then it gets a little more complicated.
It's been so long since I did those I forgot about what I did but I think I could do it again if I had to. You basically have to flip some of the up and look values. It's easier if the gate is facing exactly N,S,E or West.
I'm just using the stock MVA gate at the moment. And the problem only occures when riding with bikes, all other vehicles just line up like they should.
The gate is facing directly North (Upwards on the displacement map).
I'll give it a shot though and let you know what the result is as soon as I have some.
Thanks again.
John
Seem editing the terrain to something more flat fixed the problem with the floating front wheel.
Thanks again for the advice.
I need some help.... i got the spline from editor and its in ue2 but it wont let me move it... how do i fix that!?!
...ive edited each node indivudally so it lines up with the track but now when i go to save it give me the error floating point divsion by error
There's a help file in the zip for UE2 which should tell you how to do most things in UE2. I think you already found out how to move the spline points so i won't go into that now, except to say you can move all 3pts in a node instead of just 1 pt at a time by holding down the CTRL key.
I'm afraid the divide by zero error is a bug, are you trying to save the whole track when this error happens or just export the spline? I think it is caused by messing with the sections - like deleting pts in a section. I would like to hear what you did before trying to save to help me work out where the bug is if you have the time..
You might want to try exporting the spline if you haven't but my guess is that you will get the same error again.
To save a lot of time moving pts you could use the spline scaling function. Since I'm guessing you're making a HD track, put all the DispMap tiles together in photoshop, and shrink the smallest square area that covers you're whole track down to 257x257 (make a note of the percentage of the shrinking because you'll need to use that to scale it back up later in UE2), then save the TGA file.
Import this shrunk dispmap into the RBW editor, and plot out your spline ( adding extra points to allow for the spline to get bigger in UE2 and still give you some extra to play with if you need to later.
Export the spline file from the RBW editor and import it into UE2. Then scale it by 100 / shrink percentage, to get it back to full size for the actual track. You will also need to shift it across and up/down to put it exactly over the track area.
Because if the way this method works in UE2 it's less likely to cause errors like you got..
Laurie
having problems with getting the drop gate to show up in game! any ideas?
Also wondering what this option is for?
(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/5503/capture9032008115004amtq6.jpg)
It's the distance for objects placing. For the bales, for example, you place the first one then each time you click to place a bale the next bale will be at the same distance from the last one you placed.
Hey 27
Like yFMX said it's a distance multiplier for automatic object placement. It's multiplied by the size of the object and controls how far away from the last object the next one is placed. So set to 1 = the exact length of the object, 1.5 = 1 1/2 times the length etc..
For fences you want it set to 1 or just a little less so that they join up, for bales a little more so you don't get the exploding bale effect when 1 of them is hit..
Depending on which axis was used to model the object you might also need to click the 1/4 turn button, you'll know when you need that because you're objects will be placed side by side instead of end to end..
The Dropgate placement is a bug, UE2 doesn't add the object to the SCN file like it should which is why it doesn't appear, I also need to add support for the EndGate object..
No27 wasn't there some more text in your post, i was in the middle of replying to it yesterday and my laptop crashed. This is something like what i was writing.
I understand your frustration and i wish that UE2 was more stable, but it just hasn't had the use and testing it needs to knock the bugs out of it. I think i have some bug fixes in the version i am working on that will sort out some of the problems that you talked about. There is no multiple spline point selection and that might take a while to put in. But i have improved the spline editing and i hope made it more stable buidling new splines. I have been trying to get DispMap importing working but it's a pretty big job and it's taking longer than i hoped so probably won't make the next version.
Thanks for your feedback, i don't mind criticism so there was no need to delete your comments, :) in fact without it i can't fix what's wrong with UE2 because i just don't get the time to test by making tracks so the bugs creep in..
If you have trouble with the spline still send me the TDF and i will take a look..
Sorry i didn't get back to you sooner but time isn't always my friend.
Laurie
If I may, my biggest frustration right now with UE2 is that it will crash while you are manipulating spline points.
It's hard to pinpoint what causes the crash, it will just suddenly happen while you are working your way thru your track.
When making multi tile or even standard style HD tracks the math dosen't seem to work out on the scaling procedure as easily as it should, so I often end up having to move each node on the track at least a little bit. If it weren't for the crashes, it would only take a few minutes to do....
Ok thanks for letting me know i'll take a look at it. Just so i can try to reproduce the error, it crashes while you are dragging the point? Is it random or do you have to drag a few points or the same pt more than once?
Have you got some examples of the maths not working out, i can take a look at that as well.. :)
Laurie
Quote from: mcm2boys on March 14, 2008, 03:36:00 AM
Ok thanks for letting me know i'll take a look at it. Just so i can try to reproduce the error, it crashes while you are dragging the point? Is it random or do you have to drag a few points or the same pt more than once?
Have you got some examples of the maths not working out, i can take a look at that as well.. :)
Laurie
lol Hey mate! i was getting a bit carried away so i deleted it...but on the subject that crash seem's to happen when you try to make you spline in a rush and miss the nodes its like uetoo has an epileptic fit lol.
Yeah it's a nasty little error. cntl alt delete ftw!!
Maybe no27 has it right, maybe it's when you try to grab a node and miss.
Otherwise it just happens when I'm tryign to move individual nodes (by node, I mean one of the 3 points that makes up what you would probably call a spline node).
Whilst I'm bug reporting, if you load up a disp map and texture into RBW on both the perimeter tile and main tile, then open the project in UE2 and export those 2 tiles out, the perimeter tile will export with the correct displacement map and the the wrong texture - it takes the texture of the main tile.
PS Your program is awesome Laurie, thanks a bunch.
There's an easier way to do splines for HD. You can move splines off the tile in RBW editor and still have them read ingame. So import one tile, spline it, then import the 2nd tile, move the spline off the tile and continue it, etc.
I actually create different tiles for splining that have overlap in them, so I can position the spline over an already splined area... If that makes sense :p . Once you've splined the track, be sure you change the terrain scale back to whatever you had it at, and export the track. Then just grab the spline out of the pak.
Hmmm
Frankly that was a bit confusing but I think I get the gist of what you are saying. I'll have to try that.
Basically, you can move the spline off track and still have it be read by MVA. Just get the spline lined up each time you move it.
I've uploaded an example of this here: http://nn.nsquared.googlepages.com/Offtilesplineexample.rar